xbox one ps411 -
xbox one ps411 -

Microsoft has criticised parts of the gaming community for spreading "misinformation" about the performance of Xbox One, and claimed that the alleged power difference between the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One has been "greatly overstated".

In a post on NeoGAF, Xbox exec Albert Penello commented that, though he was "not disparaging Sony... the way people are calculating the differences between the two machines isn't completely accurate. I think I've been upfront I have nothing but respect for those guys, but I'm not a fan of the mis-information about our performance."

Penello then goes on to clarify key elements of the two consoles that he believes are often misunderstood, including beliefs that the lower amount of Compute Units available in the Xbox One lead to a 50 per cent power disadvantage, and that Xbox One's memory is slower.

"So, here are couple of points about some of the individual parts for people to consider," he said.

"• [PS4's] 18 CU's vs. [Xbox One's] 12 CU's =/= 50% more performance. Multi-core processors have inherent inefficiency with more CU's, so it's simply incorrect to say 50% more GPU.
• Adding to that, each of our CU's is running 6% faster. It's not simply a 6% clock speed increase overall.
• We have more memory bandwidth. 176gb/sec is peak on paper for GDDR5. Our peak on paper is 272gb/sec. (68gb/sec DDR3 + 204gb/sec on ESRAM). ESRAM can do read/write cycles simultaneously so I see this number mis-quoted.
• We have at least 10% more CPU. Not only a faster processor, but a better audio chip also offloading CPU cycles.
• We understand GPGPU and its importance very well. Microsoft invented Direct Compute, and have been using GPGPU in a shipping product since 2010 - it's called Kinect.
• Speaking of GPGPU - we have 3X the coherent bandwidth for GPGPU at 30gb/sec which significantly improves our ability for the CPU to efficiently read data generated by the GPU."

Penello also believes that his team often gets "little credit" for the progress it's made on its software, and says that having "some of the smartest graphics engineers" on board for Xbox One is "overlooked when evaluating both boxes".

He continued: "Given this continued belief of a significant gap, we're working with our most senior graphics and silicon engineers to get into more depth on this topic. They will be more credible then I am, and can talk in detail about some of the benchmarking we've done and how we balanced our system."

Xbox One and PlayStation 4 both launch this November.

Source: neogaf.com

New stuff to check out

To add your comment, please login or register

User Comments

GeorgeOglee's Avatar

GeorgeOglee

third party titles are always going to optimized to the lowest level so that it can work fine on every mission, so what's the point in all the arguing? This just sounds like Microsoft trying to cover themselves really.
Posted 22:42 on 26 October 2013
alphafour's Avatar

alphafour

With the exception of the Wii U (lol) the third party devs will always lower the tech specs of their games to make it run on all the consoles (i.e. both PS4 and Xbox One). I can't imagine there being very much difference between the two consoles and it when looking for the performance differences, it's probably going to come down to the skill of the engineers at each company rather than the raw processing power difference.

It's more a case of how much developers and engineers are going to milk the system for everything they have. Notice how there haven't really been any hard-hitting exclusives for 360 for a while? It might be because they hit the limit or it might be because they just can't be arsed milking it. On the other hand, Sony first party devs are still milking the PS3 now and that's how we get stunning games like Last of Us. It might be not be that the Cell processor was that much better, but a case of the Microsoft engineers giving up for some reason or another.

In terms of raw opinions, we've heard a number of developers saying they prefer PS4 and that they find it more powerful than the Xbox One, but then we have the chaps at VG saying BF4 looks crap on PS4..? If BF4 looks crap on PS4 then do we have a preliminary verdict on the Xbox One version of BF4? Surely that looks as bad if not worse!

At the end of the day, this generation appears to come down to this..

Do you want Halo and Forza or do you want Killzone and Gran Turismo? In terms of raw power there isn't that much to separate them at least in the eyes of most developers. Even if they say the PS4 is however many percent more powerful, the third party guys are still going to put their game on Xbox One unless they are shocking business people, so we are going to see very similar games whatever happens.

Done!

Stop arguing!
Posted 23:16 on 11 September 2013
BigDNinjaD's Avatar

BigDNinjaD

I Am getting a bit sick of you Xbox One haters, bogging like mad about how good the PS4 is and how bad the Xbox will be, Years of coming second in DLC's and exclusives and lets not forget PSN's sub standard on-line game play have made you all bitter, and also how you have all conveniently forgotten that Sony gave all your credit card details to hackers...LOL (fantastic Security Sony!!! well done)
the fact is we will never be able to notice the difference between the two systems as gamers... the numbers mean nothing!! the only fact is that MS have beaten Sony on on-line game play and will again, Offline I prefer Xbox as well.. Killzone was rubbish and COD was better on the Xbox, the matches and the games were faster... I could go on but it would get boring... Xbox is just better as a overall platform, Yes! the Xbox is more money! but for that I am getting a Kinect 2.0, a game and HDMI in! Yes the case is bigger, because its quieter the tiny PS4 is going to make more noise than a vacuum cleaner, and over heat.. lets hope that it is not the new red ring of death, also the design reminds me off a smaller Playstation 2 wish came out in Oct 2000... Basically it's "dated" same colour and shape, same Crappy controller!

The only mis-information is the Campaign the Sony Fan boys have been putting all over the internet! are you all really that insecure about your decision to buy a PS4? that you have to justify it by convincing yourself and everybody else that you made the right choice? lets not forget that the PS3 is also more powerful than the Xbox 360, and 360's has a better gaming experience. power isn't everything, its how you use it! and Sony seem to make graphically identically games to Xbox?

and yes! I am a Xbox Fan and proud off it... and yes I have owned all the PlayStation one to three, and sold them all because I got bored with them!

Also I believe that the PS4 will be a fantastic machine, but I believe that the Xbox will be better! Thanks
Posted 12:16 on 11 September 2013
Statix's Avatar

Statix

I actually like Albert Penello, but I think he's way in over his head trying to argue tech specs here. Reminds me of the time back in 2005 when Microsoft was trying to prove 360 as more powerful than PS3 by adding its EDRAM/GDDR3 bandwidths together.

He should let others more knowledgeable about computing hardware do the talking instead of taking on the angry fanboy hoards himself.
Posted 18:09 on 10 September 2013
Mike11585's Avatar

Mike11585

This moron thinks he knows the in and outs of Ps4.That bandwidth number he brought up is bull*****,Esram isn't better then GDDR5.Also like a poster pointed out it's not just a CU advantage it's a TU/RoP's.That clock speed advantage is so small it doesn't matter.Overclock your Pc card by 53mhz you won't see the difference.This might be good for the UI speed but game speed no,also he failed to talk about the 10%gpu performance used for the UI.Yet again this guy is spreading bs to keep all of the Xbots feed.
Posted 16:12 on 10 September 2013
Im_Dave_Angel's Avatar

Im_Dave_Angel@ CrotchRocket

+1
Posted 15:39 on 10 September 2013
CrotchRocket's Avatar

CrotchRocket

This really needs to stop now. Why is it I can't read the comments section on any website without some armchair engineer doing meaningless math with unconfirmed figures to try convince me that one of these consoles will provide me a better experience than the other? What am I missing? Have you people had some involvement in the engineering process of these consoles we don't know about?
I thought better of video gamer readers and that's why it's the first website I've felt the need to become a member of.

This is prototype hardware and while making direct comparisons with PC component equivalents can be fun it's pretty much meaningless. In practice consoles don't perform anything like these components. I could barely get a PC to run Windows using current gen "equivalent" components let alone play games to the standards we now see on console.

I'd like to think we all know that any layman can tell you which console has more graphical prowess. Once the games are in front of us we can see if one is more impressive than the other. Unfortunately that's several months away but people want to have this discussion now before committing money. Here's what I would recommend. Look at the EVIDENCE only. We can only go off what people who have played the games are saying and even then only when it wasn't on a dev kit. Of all the articles I've read so far I can only conclude the following since they keep being mentioned from independent sources - battlefield 4 in its current state looks underwhelming on PS4, Dead rising at this time has some technical graphical issues, at least in the looks department Ryse looks amazing and gameplay wise so does Titanfall. I honestly haven't read much more that I consider credible.

The proof is in the pudding so lets talk about what's coming out of the boxes not what's going in. There are too many people who get carried away with these numbers and it doesn't help people make informed decisions.
Posted 15:11 on 10 September 2013
Grammartron's Avatar

Grammartron

Man, who cares? First party titles aside, third parties will work to the lower specced machine as standard as they usually do, making performance differences negligible. I'm not particularly technically minded, but it seems that the gist of all of these articles, when you get right down to it, is this:

The two systems are actually very similar in terms of performance.

Not really down with platform-bragging and fanboy comment fights myself.
Posted 14:50 on 10 September 2013
Mitchings's Avatar

Mitchings

First of all, if he was talking about a 50% increase in CPU cores then he would be correct. However, GPUs are a highly parallel environment. CPUs are regarded generally as the serial processing unit and GPUs as the parallel processing unit.

In the case of 12 CUs & 768 Shaders vs 18 CUs & 1152 Shaders on a GPU, more is always better. While I admit that in itself will not create a 50% power advantage; it is a considerable advantage.

He also neglects to mention another important point; the PS4 GPU has 32 ROPS & 72 Texture Units vs the Xbox One GPU's 16 ROPS & 48 Texture Units; this in itself is another considerable advantage that will cause the PS4 to age much better.

The Xbox One GPU has an 853MHz vs 800MHz advantage in clock speed over the PS4 GPU. I'm going for the PS4 but any bumps in tech specs on any system is always a plus for the industry. However, 12 Compute Units @ 853MHz vs 18 Compute Units @ 800MHz(?) on a GPU and the latter still wins out easily.

MS/Xbox continue to add the bandwidth of separate pipes together in their pr statements to try and fool the uninformed when in reality it does not work like that. It is NOT 272GB/s!

That 204GB/s peak theoretical read/write is limited to a 32MB chunk of low latency eSRAM but the main DDR3 2166MHz RAM is unified pool limited to 68GB/s of peak theoretical bandwidth. Around 20GB/s of that is inherently available to the CPU. The Xbox advantage here is a 30GB/s CPU-to-GPU HSA link.

On the PS4 you have a single, simple unified pool of GDDR5 5500MHz RAM which acts as a unified address space with 176GB/s of peak theoretical bandwidth across the board. Again, around 20GB/s of which is inherently available to the CPU. The PS4 has a 20GB/s CPU-to-GPU HSA link.

...and before anyone brings up latency advantages, in a traditional PC arena the DDR3 has a clear edge and the GDDR5 suffers (though the gap isn't quite as pronounced in the first place as some would say), however, hUMA/HSA implement a special memory controller configuration which neautralises much of this issue; and even without this, the better choice and compromise in a GPU-centric gaming console would be GDDR5.


So...the Xbox Advantages? A CPU with a marginally higher clock (though PS4 CPU clock is yet to be confirmed) and a notable amount of additional bandwidth coming in directly from the GPU. It's likely the SHAPE Audio chip is stronger than the Audio chip in the PS4 so there will be a slight ease in CPU load vs the PS4. A GPU with 53MHz clock advantage.


And...the PS4 advantages? A GPU with 29% additional computational power, a 50% increase in Compute Units/Shaders, a 50% increase in texture units, a 100% increase in fillrate and a 700% increase in compute queue granularity. A simpler, faster pool of GDDR5 RAM that acts as a unified address space.


Sony also have the stronger tools this time around, have had a better policy from the outset, they've put together a console with more raw power, likely with a chip die that is ironically smaller and subsequently cooler, in a smaller, more iconic, cheaper box with an internal psu that is selling in more countries earlier.


Also, people have to stop throwing around inexact percentages and stating them as if they count for the system as a whole; and people need to stop interchanging words like "power", "speed" etc.

Multiplatform games will for the most part be developed to the lowest common denominator; and the fact is that overall that is the Xbox One. So we're only likely to see a slightly stronger Image Quality & Performance on PS4 for most multiplats.

The first party PS4 titles though will pull away considerably though by the second and third generation of titles; and the lack of fillrate/texture units will age the Xbox One more by then.
Posted 14:31 on 10 September 2013
Karlius's Avatar

Karlius

Read the article makes some good points but obviously not a complete dissection. Read the posts below and just lol, lol at every single one clueless.

Most sense comes from Munkee!
Posted 13:50 on 10 September 2013
Freekill's Avatar

Freekill

While they are trying to point out positives to the xbox one they are failing to mention how the ps4 still is a more advanced machine lol. For example even though xbox one has more bandwidth but the ps4 DDR5 hosts better transfer rate which will benefit the multi tasking activities on the system as well as load things 10% faster. It will also allow for better rending for environments, levels etc.

Not insulting xbox one at all, it is still a great machine but the facts are still there, the ps4 is slightly more advanced than the xbox one.
Posted 13:43 on 10 September 2013
TwinStripeUK's Avatar

TwinStripeUK@ Endless

Unfortunately, they are talking about these things (because the Sony fanboys keep calling the PS4 a 'faster machine', the MS fanboys claim it's not, and then the Sony crew start quoting specs). Essentially, until both sets of machines have gone to market and somebody starts running cross-platform games or apps side by side, nobody's going to notice a difference (in fact it's highly likely they won't even be able to then, either).
Posted 13:36 on 10 September 2013
cornishhardcore's Avatar

cornishhardcore@ Edito

Knack? that looks 'good', GT6 hmmmm 'original features?' not really, for all the over the top hate campains you consumerists have do you think it matters? You sound like the extremists from the far east! Normal people dont care, we're gamers not consumerist product wavers. The Ps4 may be more powerfull, but personally I'm going with the underdog, I dont give a s%*t that much, I think it has better future possiblities, a massive cloud based system and titanfall, which won't ever come to ps4 anytime soon.
Posted 13:31 on 10 September 2013
cornishhardcore's Avatar

cornishhardcore

People will follow like sheep the things they think are best. And now the problem that the PS4 fans will face is that all the idiots that have made playing xbox games online lame, are coming to your psnet. Haaaaaaaaaa that's all I'm saying, I've put up with them long enough, you will sadly see what I mean. All your favourite games will be ruined by kiddies because their mom won't spend the extra on the xbone. They're the types that care more about posing about a console then gaming. I'm going with the underdog, enjoy your teammates shooting your own side!!
Posted 13:23 on 10 September 2013
Edito's Avatar

Edito

Ok you guys invented things and got the best engineers and programmers but who got the better games in terms of tech??? Uncharted, GT6, TLOU, GoW they all look incredible not just because the platform they are working on but because of the smart devs they got... and now with the next gen you guys have a fresh opportunity to show the world how good you are... Sony has nothing to prove we all know how good they are at games and consoles...
Posted 13:16 on 10 September 2013