Forza Motorsport 5 screenshot
Forza Motorsport 5 screenshot

Forza Motorsport 5's physics engine "wouldn't have been possible with last generation hardware", Turn 10 creative director Dan Greenawalt has claimed, telling to "just do the math" when asked whether Forza 5's physics will be more realistic than those of upcoming PS3 racer Gran Turismo 6.

"The things we're doing on the Xbox One with Forza 5 physically just wouldn't have been possible with last-generation hardware," Greenawalt told us at Gamescom earlier today. "Partially because there wasn't enough power, but more importantly the approach. We have a completely new approach to how we're doing physics and a new partnership."

Greenawalt explained that Turn 10 ditched its partnership with Pirelli for Forza 5 to team up with Calspan, a science and technology research company that tested huge numbers of tyres in order to provide in-depth analytics for Forza 5’s handling.

"Calspan tested for weeks, and at the end of that they gave us millions of data points, and I have to admit, it was more than I was expecting," Greenawalt continued.

"I was a little bit like, 'Oh, okay...'. So I worked with them on how we would reintegrate that into our game so we could have all of these isolated variables and reconstruct them in real time. So when I say that we're doing things in this game that could not have been done last generation, I really mean it's on two axes.

"One, all these variables require power. We have power. The more important one is the approach. This approach, nobody is doing this. Not on the PC. Nowhere. Because you have to be, one, questioning your assumptions, and two, you have to be jumping into the deep end with partnerships, new approaches, and honestly throwing a lot of time and energy at it. To me it's a commitment to always be wrong. That's my favourite part of my job. I'm committed to always being wrong. So that means I'm always pursuing perfection and throwing things away. That's what made our entire physics so much better this time.

But does that mean Forza 5 will boast a more impressive physics simulation than Gran Turismo 6?

"Just do the math. Honestly," Greenawalt replied. "I don't know what their physics engine is. I know what mine is. What I know is my approach and the amount of power we have in the box allows us to do things that we certainly couldn't have done on the 360 and we didn't do on Forza Motorsport 4.

"I'm not playing their physics, but I think it's one of those things where there is physics involved in just what we're doing."

Forza Motorsport 5 launches alongside Xbox One this November, with Gran Turismo 6 following on PlayStation 3 on December 6.

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munkee's Avatar


I'll chip-in for a what it's worth, too. I re-read the article last night and realised that it wasn't a smug "do the maths" answer at all. There's actually a few paragraphs of great content there about Forza. It's unfortunately followed up by a shallow question that you wisely chose not to answer, instead returning to discuss your own game.

It's a shame that the the "What's better; Playstation, or Xbox?" Style question headered the article.
Posted 07:26 on 23 August 2013
Dan_T10's Avatar


This is Dan Greenawalt. For what its worth, I didn't answer the question. I compared FM5's physics to what I know, FM4 on 360. I do invite everyone to judge for themselves. Turn all the assists off (including the rewind and all steering assists) in FM4 and go do a lap at Laguna in a Ferrari 599GTO. And if you're at Gamescom, come do the same thing in FM5 in a Ferrari F12 on Laguna. We do not dumb the physics down, we add optional assists so that everyone can play the game the way they want and discover its depth when they're ready.
Posted 06:08 on 23 August 2013
VG_Dave's Avatar

VG_Dave@ munkee

I specifically asked Greenawalt whether he believed Forza 5's physics would be better than Gran Turismo 6's after he said what he said about Forza's level of physics not being possible on last-gen hardware.
Posted 21:52 on 22 August 2013
munkee's Avatar


Greenawalt states that last generation hardware (let's face it 360/PS3 is last generation now) wouldn't have made this level of physics possible. But the article asks the question of whether Forza 5's (Xbox One) physics are better than Gran Turismo 6 (PS3) and Greenawalt appears to smugly consider that Forza physics are better.

Either Greenawalt is a bit of a plank, or this is a very sneaky article.
Posted 19:50 on 22 August 2013


I'd take what Dan says with a certain grain of salt.

I mean, you know what else used the phrase: "Do the math"?

YouTube Video

That aside, it's generally held amongst the hardcore driving sim fans that with each new release, Forza has ultimately been dumbed down, so he's making a massive claim in saying they are doing things that no one has done before, including the likes of rFactor on the PC.

Remember that interview a few months ago when he got grilled about if the game would be a hardcore racing experience and he emphasised the importance of accessibility?

A lot was made of the Pirelli partnership, but ultimately it didn't seem like the promised major revolution materialised, and now they've gone and 'ditched' all that as well after ditching all of their previous work prior to FM4.

It's going to be interesting to see how things pan out, but after the rather large disappointment of Gran Turismo 5, my gut tells me that Polyphony are very determined to make up for that.
Posted 18:19 on 22 August 2013

Game Stats

Release Date: 22/11/2013
Developer: Turn 10
Publisher: Microsoft
Genre: Racing
Rating: PEGI 3+
Site Rank: 327 19
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