Heavy Rain screenshot
Heavy Rain screenshot

Quantic Dream has lost €10 million due to second hand sales of Heavy Rain, according to CEO Guillaume de Fondaumiere.

Speaking to GamesIndustry.biz, he explained that second hand sales were due to the recent recession.

"I would say that the impact that the recession had, especially on AAA games on console, was the rise of second hand gaming. And I think this is one of the number one problems right now in the industry.

"I can take just one example of Heavy Rain – we basically sold to date approximately two million units, we know from the trophy system that probably more than three million people bought this game and played it.

"On my small level it's a million people playing my game without giving me one cent. And my calculation is, as Quantic Dream, I lost between €5 and €10 million worth of royalties because of second hand gaming."

So far Heavy Rain has sold 2 million units.

It is thought Quantic Dream's next game will be Infraworld, based on a trademark filed by Sony Computer Entertainment.

New stuff to check out

13 Comments

To add your comment, please login or register

User Comments

guyderman's Avatar

guyderman

Talking of price - and it is the main factor in battling the second hand market - I was browsing through PSN last night and came across the full game of Red Faction Armageddon for download - mine for the bargain price of £54.99. A brand new sealed copy on Amazon - £14.38. Second hand copy on Ebay - £7.99. The figures speak for themselves!
Posted 12:48 on 13 September 2011
ReadySteadyGo's Avatar

ReadySteadyGo

I agree with Karlius on all points about people buying second hand and possibly having a 2nd account.
On PSN I think some have multiple accounts to purchase stuff in America which isn't out in Europe yet as well as re earning trophies for games.

I think thats why a lot of games use multiplayer as model as it's less likely they will sell the game after they have done the single player, esspecially if there is a online pass that comes with the game as well as the option for DLC like we are now seeing in the Call of Duty franchise with the yearly subscription.
Posted 11:50 on 13 September 2011
dav2612's Avatar

dav2612

As has already been said, it's all about price. Developers/publishers really need to stop moaning about the 2nd hand market and take time to understand why there is the market in the first place.
Posted 11:23 on 13 September 2011
pblive's Avatar

pblive

Much as people moan about them, I think those online passes work well to ensure anyone who buys the game second hand needs to pay to play online. Would make some of the money back for second hand sales.

Of course that doesn't help a game like Heavy Rain that has no online option. Perhaps they should have included a code to unlock the ending!

It's a similar thing with Blu-ray, they've cottoned on to the fact that providing digital copy codes with a disc means more new sales as the codes are usually used once they reach the second hand market.

But ultimately, as already mentioned here, pricing is the key and the reason so many people go for second hand over new.
Posted 11:06 on 13 September 2011
munkee's Avatar

munkee

Apples app store is where the money is. Spend 6 months in you're bedroom with a few mates developing a game for free. Make sure your product is brilliant. Release it on the app store and promote the ***** out of it via gaming sites and blogs. Sit back and reap the rewards. No pre-owned market, no refunds, no hassle. It's too easy for people to click on a 99p game.

Huge budget titles are risky business in today's industry/market. Unless your game has a 3, or upwards at the end of the end of the title.
Posted 10:43 on 13 September 2011
guyderman's Avatar

guyderman

I bought this game brand new at £39.99. But the only reason I did buy it at that price was because I knew that I'd be able to get a least half of that back when I sold it after finishing the game. If there was no second hand market for me to be able to sell it on then I never would've bought it at the full RRP in the first place, so it makes me wonder how many sales they would've got without the second hand market as I'm sure I'm not the only person who factors in selling the game when I decide to pay full RRP at launch.
Posted 17:16 on 12 September 2011
scaz2244's Avatar

scaz2244

literally just bought this pre owned lol. personally until games become les than 30 quid brand new then pre owned will continue simple
Posted 16:48 on 12 September 2011
Woffls's Avatar

Woffls

This is like when publishers say they lost $5narftillion because people downloaded their game.

And the methodology they used in the first place was utterly funking ridonkulous.

I'm making up words today.

[edit] Also, the picture should have been of Ethan crying his little eyes out.
Posted 12:39 on 12 September 2011
Clockpunk's Avatar

Clockpunk@ Karlius

Absolutely. My partner has a Live account, and she plays some of the games I purchase. I have an additional secondary American account, which I play some titles on. My sister also has one, whom I have a right to lend my purchases to.

Should statistics like these be included in calculating such fuzzy figures? Potentially 4 sets of achievements/trophies from one copy? It is a sloppy way of estimating figures - you cannot deny that.
Posted 12:09 on 12 September 2011
Karlius's Avatar

Karlius@ FantasyMeister

"It says in the article, 2 million copies sold, 3 million players have trophies"

Not necessarily true. Users could have multiple PSN accounts. While I understand your logic it is in no way a sure thing.
Posted 12:03 on 12 September 2011
FantasyMeister's Avatar

FantasyMeister@ Clockpunk

It says in the article, 2 million copies sold, 3 million players have trophies, therefore approximately 1 million 2nd hand copies out there which, at 5-10 Euros in royalites, equates to 5-10 million Euros.

Three ways to counter this for publishers:

1) Negate it altogether by issuing each game with a unique one-time use code (which would no doubt increase piracy levels)

2) Factor the 2nd hand market into RRP, e.g. launch at £39.99, after week one drop the price to £29.99, after month 1 drop the price to £19.99 and align your title's projected income model accordingly so you can budget for it.

3) Get royalties from 2nd hand dealers. It's the publisher's IP after all, no reason why the industry shouldn't align itself using the same principles used in the Movie/Music business. Having said that my local games indie also sells 2nd hand DVDs/Blu-Rays, so this option might take a lot of work to organise.
Posted 11:55 on 12 September 2011
Clockpunk's Avatar

Clockpunk

Boo-bloody-hoo. The games industry is not exempt from a second-sales market, despite the desire of the dev teams for it to be. It is a necessary part of such an expensive industry, and more harm than good will be caused if they keep trying to destroy it).

Although he says 'between 5 and 10 mllion Euros', I would like to know how he came up with this figure, besides pulling it straight out of his behind in order to make headlines with such a high amount, given that the studio has been out of the spotlight for quite some time now.

Of course, if he wants more sales, his team could go multi-platform...
Posted 11:36 on 12 September 2011
Karlius's Avatar

Karlius

I personally find this statement utter nonsense. How can you lose 10m Euros that you never had. The people that bought the game second hand may never have spent the cash on it new.

If a company want to stop 2nd hand gaming then they should provide a hook that makes gamers want to keep hold of their games. (Not some interactive movie that has no lasting appeal past a couple of play-throughs) As the game moves on pricing should reflect the market. If a 2nd Hand game is priced at £17.99 and new £19.99 with some extra content then my belief is you'll get more 1st hand sales.

In my opinion if distributors targeted pre owned prices more directly and priced the rrp of new games accordingly the bottom would fall out of the 2nd hand market. Any sale is better than no sale after all.

Other research shows that people are spending more on entertainment such as gaming through the recession as a £40 game will have more lasting appeal and VFM than £40 on a night on the lash.

(Plus you get some cash back when you trade the game in LOLS)
Posted 11:03 on 12 September 2011

Game Stats

Release Date: 26/02/2010
Developer: Quantic Dream
Publisher: Sony Computer Entertainment
Genre: Adventure
No. Players: One
Rating: BBFC 15
Site Rank: 301
View Full Site