Forza Motorsport 5 screenshot
Forza Motorsport 5 screenshot

Forza Motorsport 5's physics engine "wouldn't have been possible with last generation hardware", Turn 10 creative director Dan Greenawalt has claimed, telling to "just do the math" when asked whether Forza 5's physics will be more realistic than those of upcoming PS3 racer Gran Turismo 6.

"The things we're doing on the Xbox One with Forza 5 physically just wouldn't have been possible with last-generation hardware," Greenawalt told us at Gamescom earlier today. "Partially because there wasn't enough power, but more importantly the approach. We have a completely new approach to how we're doing physics and a new partnership."

Greenawalt explained that Turn 10 ditched its partnership with Pirelli for Forza 5 to team up with Calspan, a science and technology research company that tested huge numbers of tyres in order to provide in-depth analytics for Forza 5’s handling.

"Calspan tested for weeks, and at the end of that they gave us millions of data points, and I have to admit, it was more than I was expecting," Greenawalt continued.

"I was a little bit like, 'Oh, okay...'. So I worked with them on how we would reintegrate that into our game so we could have all of these isolated variables and reconstruct them in real time. So when I say that we're doing things in this game that could not have been done last generation, I really mean it's on two axes.

"One, all these variables require power. We have power. The more important one is the approach. This approach, nobody is doing this. Not on the PC. Nowhere. Because you have to be, one, questioning your assumptions, and two, you have to be jumping into the deep end with partnerships, new approaches, and honestly throwing a lot of time and energy at it. To me it's a commitment to always be wrong. That's my favourite part of my job. I'm committed to always being wrong. So that means I'm always pursuing perfection and throwing things away. That's what made our entire physics so much better this time.

But does that mean Forza 5 will boast a more impressive physics simulation than Gran Turismo 6?

"Just do the math. Honestly," Greenawalt replied. "I don't know what their physics engine is. I know what mine is. What I know is my approach and the amount of power we have in the box allows us to do things that we certainly couldn't have done on the 360 and we didn't do on Forza Motorsport 4.

"I'm not playing their physics, but I think it's one of those things where there is physics involved in just what we're doing."

Forza Motorsport 5 launches alongside Xbox One this November, with Gran Turismo 6 following on PlayStation 3 on December 6.

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VG_Dave's Avatar

VG_Dave@ altaranga

It isn't misleading. This is the interview we had. The question and answer is exactly as presented in the headline.
Posted 12:38 on 23 August 2013

User Comments

altaranga's Avatar

altaranga@ Karlius

Using the juiciest comment makes sense for a headline makes sense, of course. However when that comment is not indicative of the whole piece, or even the section from which it was taken, then it starts to be misleading.

For the record, please note the difference between misleading and misquoting. "The question and answer is exactly as presented" would be a perfectly valid defence against the latter of these two.
Posted 12:09 on 25 August 2013
Karlius's Avatar


Fantastic, I love this. This is how news comments sections should always be. I'm overly impressed that Dan cared enough to want to clear up his comments I also have to say I admire Dave for sticking to his guns and having courage in his convictions.

Although like most news items I believe that the juiciest comment has been used as a headline the content within paints Greenawalt in a far better light than the headline would lead me to believe. Though I can't say I blame you Dave this is common practice. The byline and article however clears things up and is far more informative.

I would love to see VG host some forum sessions with developers where you get maybe 30 mins of a developers time and host an online Q&A session where we fire questions at them. Wes started something similar way back where he would get us to submit questions and then use the best of them in his interviews. It made for some interesting articles that stood out from other sites monotonous questions.
Posted 22:16 on 24 August 2013
VG_Dave's Avatar

VG_Dave@ Dan_T10

Thanks Dan, I appreciate you taking the time to comment - it's always good to be able to have a conversation about things like this. Great speaking to you on Thursday and I look forward to seeing more on Forza soon.
Posted 00:36 on 24 August 2013
Dan_T10's Avatar

Dan_T10@ VG_Dave

I support your article, Dave. Looking at the entire quote at the bottom of the article, my answer was too long-winded. I should have simply said the penultimate sentence: "the box allows us to do things that we certainly couldn't have done on the 360 and we didn't do on Forza Motorsport 4."
Posted 20:10 on 23 August 2013
munkee's Avatar

munkee@ VG_Dave

So you know, Dave, I didn't really have a problem with the article. I got quite a lot of interesting information from it. I also never suggested that you had fabricated anything, or tried to mislead anybody. I personally felt that your published question was a poor choice. Most of the people reading this article would have been racing game fans interested in what Forza will be offering us. Imagine how differently those last few paragraphs would have been if the question was

"How do you think the processing power of Xbox One might shape the future of racing games in the next few years?"


"What other exciting new features can fans expect to see from Forza that wouldn't have been possible on Xbox 360?".

Instead we got a generic "My dad's better than your dad" type affair that could have lured Dan into speaking down about the competition. It wasn't a strong enough question to get you a header worthy quote that would pull in traffic. But you used it anyway and without intention lowered the level of an otherwise technically informative interview.
Posted 13:45 on 23 August 2013

BrySkye@ VG_Dave

In fairness to Dave, we do have this snippet:

"The things we're doing on the Xbox One with Forza 5 physically just wouldn't have been possible with last-generation hardware,"

Saying as GT6 is on last-generation hardware, it is by no means a stretch of the imagination to interpret this as an answer to the question, whether that was the intention or not.

Perhaps for ultimate clarity, that should have been "wouldn't have been possible on the Xbox 360."
But, y'know, Journalist Sneak *****s, right?
This is one of the questions people will also ask, so should have a pretty well constructed pre-baked answer.

With respect to the assists, I do indeed turn them all off and use them along with a Fanatec GT2 wheel and clubsport pedals, with the exception of the LMP cars where I will turn on traction control.

I personally don't particularly prescribe to the dumbing down argument, but I do feel like the series has become stagnated.

I like Forza a great deal indeed, however the series just doesn't seem to be advancing anywhere near the rate it should and personally, I think a certain amount of... complacency has crept in.
For example, not only the lack of the new Silverstone in FM4, but that the track was essentially copy/pasted from FM3, with the same level of construction work (which had finished over a year prior to FM4) still being present.
Also for things like weather.

Codemasters really upped the game on consoles with F1 2010 and the likes of dynamic weather and track evolution.
Tracks got faster as they rubbered in and dry lines would form on wet tracks as wet weather tyres cleared water.
The way I see it, any racing game that doesn't have those features, especially a flagship AAA title like FM or GT, is falling short of it's potential.

Gran Turismo 5 did at least have weather variation and night racing on some tracks, and these are features still distinctly lacking from FM5.

And that's why I'm not excited about FM5. It might be on the Xbox One, but in some ways it seems like it's still living in the 6th generation world of the PS2.
After Forza Horizon introduced dynamic time of day, it's very sad that this hasn't been implemented into FM5, especially for Endurance racing fans and I flat out know that Turn-10 are big fans of LM.
Posted 13:09 on 23 August 2013
altaranga's Avatar

altaranga@ VG_Dave

I'll assume it was unintentional then.
Posted 12:45 on 23 August 2013
VG_Dave's Avatar

VG_Dave@ altaranga

It isn't misleading. This is the interview we had. The question and answer is exactly as presented in the headline.
Posted 12:38 on 23 August 2013
altaranga's Avatar

altaranga@ VG_Dave

But your headline is misleading, be it intentional (click-baiting) or not (dumb-ass).

I'm glad Dan_T10 took the time and effort to clear up your mess, Scammell. It's just a pity he felt the need to do so in the first place.
Posted 12:30 on 23 August 2013
VG_Dave's Avatar


Thanks for stopping by, Dan. Just to clear up any confusion there may be, obviously this isn't about 'PlayStation or Xbox' but about the two games concerned.

The question and answer is exactly as outlined in the headline and article (which I've double-checked against the audio file), and Dan's answer was clearly Forza-focussed given that's his product. Hopefully Dan's comment provides a little more colour but I believe the report to be accurate and fair.
Posted 12:24 on 23 August 2013
Clockpunk's Avatar


Dan - Forza needs more Spykers! :p (sorry, just had to get that out there since Horizon)

But I agree with you chaps above, varying assist levels make all the difference.
Posted 10:05 on 23 August 2013
munkee's Avatar

munkee@ dav2612

I agree entirely. I also like having a varying degree of assist. Like, perhaps not turn traction control completely off, but lowering it to a manageable level depending on the car I'm driving.
Posted 09:41 on 23 August 2013
dav2612's Avatar


"we add optional assists so that everyone can play the game the way they want and discover its depth when they're ready"

This is a feature I really like with driving games, the difficulty levels are almost customisable and go beyond the standard Easy, Normal and Hard. Dirt 3 was similar and I wish more driving games had this feature in them. It does mean every one can play the game and the option to challenge yourself as you improve is there when you are ready.
Posted 09:07 on 23 August 2013
Dan_T10's Avatar


The IP address should be from a hotel in West Cologne;-). I'm about to head to the convention for another day of interviews. I swing by the booth periodically to do stage presentations. Today's first is at 11:30. If you're at the show, come by the Xbox booth and say hi.
Posted 07:47 on 23 August 2013
Karlius's Avatar


I can say that Dan_T10's address is resonating from Germany. If it is Greenawalt commenting on a story to clear up confusion I think that's pretty cool.

I'm with munkee think it was answered well.
Posted 07:34 on 23 August 2013

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Release Date: 06/12/2013
Developer: Polyphony Digital
Publisher: SCEE
Genre: Racing
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