Games to lead on PS3 as it's "easier to lead with the most powerful, both in terms of AI and graphics".
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> PS3 was lead for Burnout Paradise, Mirrors Edge, UT3, Final Fantasy 13, Dead Space, Skate 2, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, Dark Sector, Devil May Cry 4.
All of theose games that are released run amazingly on both system. Which cannot be said for games that were lead on 360.
PS3 as lead is the SMART thing to do.
Thank you for proving my points.
Games ported from an inferior console to a superior console runs exactly same(like PS3->X360 ports you listed).
Games ported from a superior console to an inferior console run into trouble, as a long list of X360->PS3 ports proves.
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Additionally, you may want to go for a minor in English before you go jumping on someone because you can't read. Keep me out of your fanboy arguments.
Morne
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Your perception of the PS3 power is totally ill-informed....the 360 is not twice as powerful they are almost on equal plying group with the PS3 have a little more beefier CPU power whereas the GPU on the 360 is a little better but not by that much and the reason for the bad port is poorly executed coding and also most devs are not going to invest time and money into PS3 resources to make a game that came out a while back on the 360...nothing to do with hardware.
If folks like Insomniac, Naughty Dog, Guerrilla, Epic can make a game look great on the PS3, then there is not excuse for 3rd party dev...they only excuse they can have is they got their dev kits late or they simply don't have a full understanding of the PS3 architecture whereas the 360 is close to the x86 infrastructure, hence the reason why its easy to work with.
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> Lucas Arts, who stated that the PS3 was SUPPOSED to be the lead platform
For their "next-game" after Force Unleashed and Fracture, which isn't going to happen because LucasArt shut down their internal game studio and is now outsourcing all their projects.
@ DaEmph
> Your perception of the PS3 power is totally ill-informed....
How can that be, since I am a programmer with a Master's degree and you are a Ph'D researcher with SCEI I presume...
> the 360 is not twice as powerful they are almost on equal plying group
No, they are not.
> with the PS3 have a little more beefier CPU power
For gaming code, CELL is 1/3rd~1/4th as powerful as Xbox 360's CPU. How can this be? Because APUs(what you call as SPU) are useless for general purpose (ie gaming) code and PPE core is like 66% of speed of single Xbox 360 Core. Do the math, each core being 1.5X faster and you have three of these and how many times faster is this?
> whereas the GPU on the 360 is a little better but not by that much
And you missed the news that Xbox 360 version of GTA4 is pushing three times as many pixel samples(I call it "pixel samples" because Xbox 360 version has FSAA on, while PS3 version doesn't) as PS3 version, and that Xbox 360 version is presented in HD, while PS3 version is in SD as in "Standard Definition".
> and the reason for the bad port is poorly executed coding
Blaming programmers for poor PS3 game quality is like blaming soldiers for losing a battle after giving them broke/defective weapons to fight with.
> and also most devs are not going to invest time and money into PS3 resources to make a game that came out a while back on the 360...nothing to do with hardware.
Exactly, programmer's time is money and we have deadlines to meet. Having a tough programming environment does not help to meet deadlines and bad things happen when you miss deadlines. Back in college, I had a freedom to choose which language to use implement a given course project out of 7 languages I could use. Guess which language I used? The quickest one I can finish the project in.
> If folks like Insomniac, Naughty Dog, Guerrilla, Epic
- Insomniac : Sony 2nd party. Not owned by Sony, but funded by Sony.
- Naughty Dog : Sony 1st party
- Guerrilla : Sony 1st party
- Epic : You can remove Epic's name from your list, as Epic hates PS3.
> then there is not excuse for 3rd party dev...
3rd parties don't have unlimited time and budget like 1st parties do. They are under heavy pressure to meet deadline on budget, this means coding for PS3 in a conventional programming model(Treating PS3 like a 800 Mhz Pentium III PC with a GeForce 7600GT videocard) and then port the game to Xbox 360 and PC, or code for Xbox 360/PC inhouse and outsource PS3 version to some Eastern European developers.
> they simply don't have a full understanding of the PS3 architecture
No one does. And trying to do so is not worth your time and money, especially when PS3 is at the last place and games don't sell on PS3.
I am sick of PS3 fans blaming programmers for poor quality of PS3 games, when the fault rests on PS3's unprogrammable g***** hardware. Heck, SCEI USA President Jack Tretton even admitted PS3 hardware was f**ked up.
<http://gizmodo.com/5025980/sony-knows-what-went-wrong-with-the-ps3>
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While it appears you do understand alot about programming, it appears that you know relatively little regarding how the PS3 works, and that instead of looking into it, you just fill it in with false information that corroborates your story, thankfully, there are those of us who can see through the partial truths you're claiming.(Reminds me of Michael Moore's journalism).
The SPE's on the PS3 are actually clocked @ 3.2g, and are dual threaded processors. Fact. The PPE acts as a scheduler for the SPE's, and when done correctly, it stomps the dogmeat out of the 360's CPU. The only thing that keeps the 360 competitive is it's GPU and Unified RAM architecture. Likewise, the Cell, XDR Ram, and HDD are the only things that keep the PS3 competitive. Both companies cut corners in certain departments (and to be honest, both companies failed with their GPU's, they should've been DX10 compliant at LEAST, not to mention at least a gig of RAM for both).
What people still are failing to realize, is that First Party studios, are really the only ones capable of providing us even a remote glimpse of what these machines are capable of, simply because, 3rd party devs are more worried about multiple platform developement and making sure each console gets the same game. Developers like Epic, Insomniac, Guerilla Games, etc...have no such worries, because they can familiarize themselves with _1_ platform, create an engine around that platform (as opposed to utilizing a tremendously overused and tired middleware such as UE3). This allows them to push the abilities of the respective hardware, without having to worry about cutting out portions that the other wouldn't necessarily be capable or doing (or not doing well enough to make the grade). Deferred Rendering on the PS3, while it would normally take longer ....on a TRADITIONAL pc architecture, has NO such problems on the PS3, because of it's blazing CPU RAM, and the 6 dual threaded SPE's. Do a little research and you find latency is not an issue with XDR.
Morne
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> SUPPOSED to be for the Next-Gen game, that they started in early 2006?
Ok, let's settle this once and for all.
http://www.lazygamer.co.za/xbox-360/...-lead-platform)
"LucasArts were talking about their upcoming game, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, and the pitfalls of porting games over to the PS3. They had originally chosen the Xbox 360 as the lead platform purely because they didnt actually have any PS3 dev kits until early 2006."
"One of the most interesting statements made was the following. Our next project will use the PS3 as the baseline, and then apply that to the Xbox 360
Now I dont know if its a cultural thing, but did he just say the PS3 is the lowest denominator?"
You have a reading comprehension problem.
> While it appears you do understand alot about programming
Of course, I write financial transaction software for a living.
> it appears that you know relatively little regarding how the PS3 works
As much as any outsider who hasn't signed an NDA with SCEI can possibly know.
> thankfully, there are those of us who can see through the partial truths you're claiming.(Reminds me of Michael Moore's journalism).
If you actually understand, then you wouldn't even be defending PS3's flawed architecture. Heck, even SCEI America prez Jack Tretton admitted as such and promised to not f*** up again the next time.
> The SPE's on the PS3 are dual threaded processors. Fact.
WRONG.
> The PPE acts as a scheduler for the SPE's.
This scheme doesn't work in real life. In real-life, PPE has to run most of code.
> and when done correctly
Which is impossible to do.
> it stomps the dogmeat out of the 360's CPU.
Yes, video processing and physics only. I will give you that much.
> The only thing that keeps the 360 competitive is it's GPU and Unified RAM architecture.
Xbox 360 advantages over PS3.
- Four times sustainable general purpose(gaming) code performance.
- Four times pixel sample output when FSAA is turned on.
- Four times triangle throughput.
- Three times sustainable shader performance
- 90 MB more usable memory available.
- No restriction on program/texture memory allocation.
> Both companies cut corners in certain departments
Yes, Microsoft used cheap parts in non-core parts.
SCEI stuck with a CPU not optimized for gaming code and used a cheap budget GPU.
> they should've been DX10 compliant at LEAST
DX10 feature is useless to PS3 since PS3 cannot have DX API. A hardware feature is useless without an API to access the feature.
> What people still are failing to realize, is that First Party studios, are really the only ones capable of providing us even a remote glimpse of what these machines are capable of, simply because, 3rd party devs are more worried about multiple platform development and making sure each console gets the same game.
So if you play SCEI first party titles exclusively, do go buy a PS3.
Everybody else playing 3rd party games, Xbox 360 is the only rational choice.
> Developers like Epic, Insomniac, Guerilla Games, etc...have no such worries
Epic is not a Sony 1st party and Epic's UE3/3.5 hates PS3.
> Deferred Rendering on the PS3, while it would normally take longer ....on a TRADITIONAL pc architecture, has NO such problems on the PS3
Traditional PC architectures don't need PS3 style deferred rendering. PS3's only using deferred rendering to overcome RSX3's setup limitation problem(45 million triangles peak vs 180 million triangles/s observed on Xbox 360)
> Do a little research and you find latency is not an issue with XDR.
Again, you(a non-programmer) is trying to teach me(a programmer) on computing hardware....
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